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COMENIUS T4EU-R --- WORK LINE B - Wagon Components (see also new WORKLINE E!!!) => Clicking System => Topic started by: [NL] Marc van Erp on October 03, 2012, 12:57:47 PM

Title: New clicking system drawing.
Post by: [NL] Marc van Erp on October 03, 2012, 12:57:47 PM
Dear train family,

In the attachment you will find the new clicking system drawing.

With Kind regards,

Marc van Erp
The Netherlands


Title: Re: New clicking system drawing.
Post by: [NL] Marc van Erp on October 03, 2012, 02:34:11 PM
Sorry i sended the wrong drawing here is the new drawing of the clicking system.

with kind regards,

Marc van Erp
The Netherlands
Title: Re: New clicking system drawing.
Post by: [FR] Nicolas Prime on October 03, 2012, 11:06:43 PM
Dear Marc
Could please also send to us the 3D model (.STEP) of the clicking system ?
Thanks in advance.
Title: New clicking system program
Post by: [NL] Kevin Vogels on October 05, 2012, 11:37:57 AM
Dear Train familie,

The G codes for the clicking system are finaly here!
If something isn't working properly contact me.

Yours,

Kevin Vogels
The Netherlands
KW1C 's-Hertogenbosch
Title: Re: New clicking system drawing.
Post by: [NL] Kevin Vogels on October 09, 2012, 03:16:10 PM
dear train family,

I forgot to tell about the holes on de sides. you have to drill them however you like. its not in the program.

yours,
Kevin Vogels
Title: Re: New clicking system drawing.
Post by: [FR] Nicolas Prime on October 13, 2012, 03:19:32 PM
In this attachment you will find the .STEP file

Greetz.

Marc

I'm maybe wrong but it seems that this is not the correct 3D file at least not the 3D file of the "new clicking system.pdf". Could you explain to me:
Which part am I supposed to produce ?
How does "clicking" works (balls, spring... how and where ?) ?

I'm now a little bit confused with clicking system...

Thanks in advance for pieces of informations.

Nicolas.

PS: could you please erase post with wrong datas ?
Title: Re: New clicking system drawing.
Post by: [DE] Heinz Wildgrube on October 16, 2012, 02:11:07 AM
Hello Marc,

Also in my opinion something is wrong with the posted STEP file.
The "quick and dirty" assembly drawing enclosed shows the problem.
The STEP file doesn't match to the pdf. Could you please check?

And as Nicolas wrote I also need to say that it is not really clear where and how the system clicks.
Maybe it's possible for you to provide us with a general assembly drawing?
That would be great ...

Thanks a lot!

Many greetings
--
Heinz Wildgrube
CNC Network Coordinator
BBS TGHS Bad Kreuznach
Germany

News at:
http://www.cnc-network.eu
Title: Re: New clicking system drawing.
Post by: [NL] Marc van Erp on October 22, 2012, 12:59:47 PM
Hello Heinz,

Sorry i had sended the wrong .step file in this attachment you wil find the right one. I was bussy with more things so from my quickness i had sended the wrong one.

But the clicking system works as follow:

In the axel desing they have made an hole where a linkin-pin is comming in. In the clicking system we have made a hole where the bullit of the linkin-pin will click-in. If you put the clicking system on the undercarriage the bullit of the linkin-pin fitt into the clicking system.

If you dont understand it i will send information of the linkin-pin.

greetz.

Marc van Erp
NL
Title: Re: New clicking system drawing.
Post by: [DE] Heinz Wildgrube on October 22, 2012, 01:14:08 PM
Hello Marc,

Thanks for your answer and the correct drawing :)

I get more and more an idea how the clicking system works ...

Do you mean something like a ball plunger (see attached picture)?
Would be nice, if you could send us a drawing or a specification of the "linking-pin" you have in mind.
Does this part has a DIN number? What diameter? What lenght?
How is the "linking-pin" fixed? Counter screw/nut? Clue?

More details would be helpful to understand ...

Thanks a lot!

Many greetings
--
Heinz Wildgrube
CNC Network Coordinator
BBS TGHS Bad Kreuznach
Germany

News at:
http://www.cnc-network.eu
Title: Re: New clicking system drawing.
Post by: [NL] Marc van Erp on October 22, 2012, 02:49:02 PM
Hello Heinz,

In the attachment you will find the linking-pin that we will use.

I hope you will understand it now.

Greetz.

Marc van Erp
NL
Title: Re: New clicking system drawing.
Post by: [DE] Heinz Wildgrube on October 22, 2012, 03:20:31 PM
Hello Marc,

Okay, that's the same part I had in mind in my posting above  8)

But there is another question we need to discuss:
As far as I see we need to adjust the two "linking-pins" and we need to fix them.
Otherwise I fear that we will loose the position very fast and the system will not work properly.

Do you agree with me?

So the question will be:
How is the "linking-pin" fixed? Counter screw/nut? Clue?

Any idea?

Many greetings
--
Heinz Wildgrube
CNC Network Coordinator
BBS TGHS Bad Kreuznach
Germany

News at:
http://www.cnc-network.eu
Title: Re: New clicking system drawing.
Post by: [NL] Marc van Erp on October 22, 2012, 04:30:34 PM
hello heinz,

If you will look into the minute of kuopio you will see that we had discussed that. We will bring tesla-tape with us so the linking-pins will not unscrewing.
We will use this tape because when you will use glue and you have to chance the pin than its not handy.
So we will use the tape.

Greetz.

Marc van Erp
NL
Title: Re: New clicking system drawing.
Post by: [DE] Heinz Wildgrube on October 22, 2012, 04:39:31 PM
Hello Marc,

Okay, thanks again for your answer.

Aha, I understand  :)

But could you please explain me "Tesla-Tape"?
I never had heard that before.
Maybe you mean "Teflon-Tape"?

And sorry, you're right, as a fact it's in your minute.
I've read it, but still forgot this detail  :-[

Many greetings
--
Heinz Wildgrube
CNC Network Coordinator
BBS TGHS Bad Kreuznach
Germany

News at:
http://www.cnc-network.eu
Title: Re: New clicking system drawing.
Post by: [NL] Marc van Erp on October 22, 2012, 06:02:39 PM
hello heinz,

Its the same we can use teflon as well.

greetz.

Marc van Erp
NL
Title: Re: New clicking system drawing.
Post by: [FR] Nicolas Prime on October 22, 2012, 07:09:43 PM
Thank you Marc for those details !!
But it seems that the "clicking system" file used by Heinz to make the "assembly.jpeg" is different than the one you gave to us as the final version... Could you please erase the post with wrong or old datas ? Few more questions:
I hope my questions are clear (not sure...)
Nicolas.
Title: Re: New clicking system drawing.
Post by: [DE] Heinz Wildgrube on October 22, 2012, 09:34:27 PM
Hello Nicolas,
Hello Clicking System Group,

This is also a good question.

In my eyes the clicking system consists of two parts.

The first element is the rectangle hole and the "linking-pins" which belongs to the common undercarriage. As this is a common part, no changes should be allowed.

The second element is the clicking system plate which is fixed to the individual upper part. As a consequence the clicking system plate belongs to the individual upper part and is therefor also supposed to be exchanged. In this case changes of the clicking system plate should be allowed - as far as the upper part fits properly to the rectangle hole and also to the "linking-pins" of the common undercarriage.

BTW:
Should we add some +/- tolerances to the rectangle hole and the correspondent part? What do you think?

Anyhow, let's wait for the answer of the Clicking System Group. I'm sure they will tell us soon ...

Many greetings
--
Heinz Wildgrube
CNC Network Coordinator
BBS TGHS Bad Kreuznach
Germany

News at:
http://www.cnc-network.eu
Title: Re: New clicking system drawing.
Post by: [NL] Terence van Acquoij on October 26, 2012, 11:43:21 AM
Hello Heinz,

We will order the linking pins of the clicking system for every country (1 Wagon) for St. Pölten.

In this case changes of the clicking system plate is allowed - as far as the upper part fits properly to the rectangle hole and also to the "linking-pins" of the common undercarriage. But you can only change the Thickness and wideness of the upperside of the system. Noting else. Otherwise it doesn't fit at the baseplate.

In The Netherlands we normally have 0.2 mm tolerances. But we forgot to put that into the drawings. we will change the drawings for that

Greetzz,

Terence van Acquoij
Marc van Erp
KW1C 's-Herthogenbosch
The Netherlands

Title: Re: New clicking system drawing.
Post by: [FR] Nicolas Prime on October 27, 2012, 05:18:28 PM
It's now clear for me how the clicking system will work.
Thank you very much for those details.
Title: Re: New clicking system drawing.
Post by: [NL] Marc van Erp on November 05, 2012, 12:45:32 PM
hello people,

In this drawing you can see the tolerance of the drawings.
I was forget it sorry ;D.

Greetz,

Marc van Erp
NL

Sorry heinz i was forget it ^^ see the attachment
Title: Re: New clicking system drawing.
Post by: [AT FUL] Jakob Bramböck on November 06, 2012, 12:56:10 PM
i just had a quick look on those drawings but i can't find the depth of the holes ? so how deep do we have to drill?
thanks in advance
Jakob
Title: Re: New clicking system drawing.
Post by: [DE] Heinz Wildgrube on November 06, 2012, 01:46:42 PM
Hello Marc,

Thanks for changing the drawing.

I had a look to it and saw that you've added a GENERAL minus tolerance of -0.2 mm for ALL the measurements now.

I think this is a bit strange, because in my eyes we only need minus tolerances for the outer rectangle shape.

So why don't you define the minus tolerance only for the 60 mm and 130 mm dimension of the relevant rectangle shape?

Any reason for this?

Please check and tell us ...

Many greetings
--
Heinz Wildgrube
CNC Network Coordinator
BBS TGHS Bad Kreuznach
Germany

News at:
http://www.cnc-network.eu
Title: Re: New clicking system drawing.
Post by: [FR] Nicolas Prime on November 08, 2012, 02:53:12 PM
I also don't understand the tolerances !!
What does -0,2mm means ? Is it 0/-0,2mm ?
If you have a look at the drawing of the undercarriage baseplate the dimensions are 130 +0,1/-0,3 and 60 +0,1/-0,3. 
So in my opinion we will probably have troubles to assemble the clicking system on the baseplate.
Could you please explain to me ?
Title: Re: New clicking system drawing.
Post by: [DE] Heinz Wildgrube on November 08, 2012, 06:00:24 PM
Hello Marc,
Hello Common Undercarriage Group,
Hello Clicking System Group,

I agree with Nicolas.

In fact the tolerances of the baseplate drawing were added and published today in the new drawing you find within the newest common undercarrieage topics.

We will have in the clicking system plate a tolerance of 0/-0.2 and in the baseplate a tolerance of +0.1/-0.3 for the rectangle shape.

This constellation is critical and will not work in bad cases.

Please check, talk together and do the neccessary corrections.

Thanks a lot ...

Many greetings
--
Heinz Wildgrube
CNC Network Coordinator
BBS TGHS Bad Kreuznach
Germany

News at:
http://www.cnc-network.eu
Title: Re: New clicking system drawing.
Post by: [AT STP] Mike Fahrafellner on November 09, 2012, 11:18:02 AM
Just a small question..wouldn´t it be nice if the clicking system covers the screws of the undercarriege?

best regards
Mike
Title: Re: New clicking system drawing.
Post by: [DE] Heinz Wildgrube on November 09, 2012, 03:20:42 PM
Hello Mike,

We've already disussed that point above (see reply #16).

Quote
In this case changes of the clicking system plate is allowed - as far as the upper part fits properly to the rectangle hole and also to the "linking-pins" of the common undercarriage. But you can only change the Thickness and wideness of the upperside of the system. Noting else. Otherwise it doesn't fit at the baseplate.


So, if you would like to cover the screws, feel free to increase the dimension of the plate without changing the important rectangle shape.

Thanks a lot ...

Many greetings
--
Heinz Wildgrube
CNC Network Coordinator
BBS TGHS Bad Kreuznach
Germany

News at:
http://www.cnc-network.eu
Title: Re: New clicking system drawing.
Post by: [CH] Christian Trinkler on November 15, 2012, 11:14:35 AM
Hello guys,

Can you please modificate your clicking system according the measurements of our final baseplate.

The rectangle part have to match into the groundplate, but the space between the rectangle part and the axle mounting should be tight enough, maybe 4mm up to 6mm, for the ball pins, that it works.

Can you please give me the final drawing with the right measurements from the rectangle part and according your messurements of our final baseplate.

Thanks a lot for your efforts.

kind regards

Christian Trinkler
Title: Re: New clicking system drawing.
Post by: [DE] Heinz Wildgrube on November 17, 2012, 10:36:19 PM
Hello Christian,

Thanks for posting your message.

As far as I can read you would like to point out a mistake, which could be important for assembling the undercarriage. Right?

But, to tell you the truth, I do not understand anything!

So, could you please explain to us exactly:

Where is the problem?
What's wrong?
What should we do?
Why should we do this?

Your answer would be helpful to understand your doubts.
At the moment I think nobody understand the problem and so nobody is able to discuss.

Maybe you would like to explain the problem you see by showing us the details by using a technical drawing?

Thanks a lot!

Many greetings
--
Heinz Wildgrube
CNC Network Coordinator
BBS TGHS Bad Kreuznach
Germany

News at:
http://www.cnc-network.eu
Title: Re: New clicking system drawing.
Post by: [NL] Marc van Erp on February 18, 2013, 11:06:49 AM
Hello everyone,

The updated drawing of the clicking sytem.
Now you can see how to drill the hole for the linking-pins.

If there are questions about the place of the antenna you have to ask it in the control system group not in this topic.

I hope its clear now

Regards,

Marc van Erp
NL